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Diffucult lenghty start

2K views 25 replies 3 participants last post by  cory52000 
#1 ·
So first up date to my post from from yesterday about the starter and solenoid. Everything tested out good. I hooked the new starter up externally and it was spinning just fine. I disconnected the main battery terminals on the solenoid and tested the relay with an ohm meter. Infinite ohms at off and when start button pressed, it would short (as expected), then back to off when I release the button. After I got everything hooked back up, the issue stated again where it would remain shorted and keep trying to crank the starter....I put the old one back in and it workes just fine....Now the pressing problem I started with in the first place.....

I will hold down the start and it takes up to a good 5 minutes to finally start the engine. The starter turns but nothing happens to actually start the warrior. After the first minute or two is when you start hearing the pressure "poofing" out of the exhaust. This continues until it finally starts after so long. Once it remains running for a few minutes, it will fire right back up no issues and runs just fine until it sits again for a few hours. This has been the issue since I got the quad. I have had a new battery installed and it also does this if I try to jump it (which I think eliminates the stator being the issue? Could still be bad but if I am seeing the issue jumping it then I would assume it is something else). Spark plug is newish along with the ignition coil. This has been an issue both before AND after they were replaced. I just want some reliability in this thing before I trust it to take me deep into some trails, does anyone got any pointers on where to start looking now?
 
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#2 ·
Just a background on the quad. I got it for free a year ago trading someone my totaled SUV that still ran and I got all the money back from, so basically a free quad. I havent had much ride time other than a few hours here and there around my wife's rental property when it was vacant to get a feel for the quad and see what issues came up. The main problem I have had is the starting. Here is a list of items I have replaced in which the starting issue has been there before AND after.
Battery, spark plug, ignition coil, carb rebuild and then just full replacement, starter motor, oil change, new air filter
 
#3 ·
jumping it does not eliminate the stator, the stator and pick up coils create the spark no matter what. the crank and spark circuits have nothing to do with one and other. test all of the electronics to rule them out. first guess is low compression. adjust the valves and see if it helps. if not do a compression test, it may need a top end. did you put a cheap Chinese knock off carb like a zoom zoom? if so it could be a bad carb. did you jet and tune the carb for your elevation, yoiu cant just slap a new carb on without tuning it. was the old coil bad? how do you know? is the new coil a cheap knock off?
 
#4 ·
ok so you are stating that the spark comes directly from the stator and not the battery? Might need to do some further tests on that one or just replace.
The quad came with a zoom zoom already on it. I forget what brand the one I put on is but I seen recommendations for it a while back. I tuned it to the best of my abilities using youtube (not a mechanic but very versatile in learning new things, may or may not have done it correctly but changed nothing in terms of THIS problem but runs so much better than the zoom zoom). The old coil may or may not have been bad. I just replaced it anyways with what they sold me at the used ORV dealer that used to be in town.
This problem has been an issue both before and after each of these parts have been replaced.

I have seen posts about valve adjustment and looks like I need to take the entire motor out for that? Compression tests can come directly from the spark plug hole correct?
 
#6 ·
10 minutes to adjust the valves. a weekend to do a top end if you do it correctly. you will have ore time in cleaning and prepping the machine to open the motor than you will in swapping the jug and piston. do your self a favor and spend the money on a clymer paper manual it will make you life easier and give you step by step instructions for everything. it will pay for itself the first time you use it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CLYMER-Rep...905309&hash=item44029517d1:g:jOEAAOSwX21c12ht
 
#7 ·
the spark has nothing to do with the battery you could take it clear out. it only runs the starter. it is very unlikely that this is electrical but if you order the manual it will walk you through step by step to test all of the electrical parts so you dont wast money. a proper stator is 150 bucks or so. i would not replace it in case. you dont need to pull the motor to adjust the valves. just pull the valve caps, it might be easier if you pull the tank for access. you dont even pull the motor to replace the top end. yes you test the compression in the spark plug hole.
 
#8 ·
Just got home and went to testing. Might try the valves tonight if I have time. So does the spark come directly from the stator? I pulled the plug and it was sparking just fine. Seemed a little loose when I started to take out though. Wonder if that has anything to do with it? But yet again it was like that with the old plug as well. Maybe tomorrow I can pick up a compression tester and give it a shot.
 
#10 ·
Well after I put the plug back in, it started up rather quickly today after sitting for 24 hours (maybe like 5 cranks). Gets very rough idle at first then dies out. If I even put the slightest bit of pressure on the throddle it stays running.Actual battery is dead so I jumped it. Maybe wife will be nice and give me time to adjust the valves tonight 😂😂. Glad you don't think it's an electrical problem. I am an electronics tech and I think way to deep into troubleshooting. It's always much more simple than I make it out to be.
 
#11 ·
So far I got the intake adjusted to spec. It was very tight. My feeler gauge goes down to .04 mm and I couldn't even fit that in there. I got it somewhere in between .06 and .07. That's all the time my wife allowed for me last night, possibly able to get the exhaust side torn off today. Also wanted to note that yes I did my research and have the T facing through the little hole, lol. Would a very tight intake gap cause this issue I am having? I am curious to see what the exhaust is at right now.
 
#13 ·
It has been quite some time after I adjusted the valves (due to bad battery) that I have been able to test how it is with after the valve adjustment. Finally threw in a new battery (had other projects come up. It was turning right over and I was hearing the pressure coming out of the exhaust right away (before it would crank and crank before I would actually hear a poof out the exhaust). Fired up rather quickly and took it for a few laps around the block and seems to be running great.....except for.... there is this loud clicking sound I am hearing now. Never heard it before and my wife even heard it inside the house. It goes with the speed of the engine. Any idea of what this could be?
I am trying to take my son out trail riding this weekend (he got a PW80) and would like to either solve this issue or know that its nothing that I need to worry about.
 
#23 ·
I took it our riding over the weekend and hit up the mountains. After about 5 hours of riding, It seemed to be running great still despite the noise. Didn't get louder or didn't go away. Only issue I am having is that it dies out when I come to a stop about half the time.

Also another thing, I NEVER had neutral in the shifter since I got the thing. I have always had to put the forward/reverse lever in the middle to be in neutral. Do you think this would a clutch issue or start looking somewhere else?

The quad was basically free but sucks getting something so old that you have no idea what was done to it in the past or what other issues have come up. I just want to hit the mountains in confidence!

BTW I was out with my 9y.o. son this weekend while he had his 96 PW80. Got about 6 miles from the staging area and about +2000 ft elevation up a mountain and his rear tire blew!! HEHEHE that was fun.
 
#24 ·
did you ever adjust the valves? its not likely a clutch issue and i am not sure how that is possible. the only clutch related thing i could think of is if it is not adjusted properly and is dragging it can be hard to hit neutral it will skip right over it. but if you can hit first and second neutral should be there. does it jump when you put it in gear. the light should at least flash as you go by neutral. test the switch. be very careful using that method as neutral. there is no neutral there it is just splitting those 2 gears and could easily drop into one or the other
when my boy was 5 he crashed about that far out, what an ordeal. i cant count the flats and such we have had together. good times
 
#25 ·
The valves seem spot on still, so no idea there. Maybe I can take a shot at seeing if it is the timing chain. Just interesting this was never a sound before the valves were adjusted, but also before the valves had no gap at all.

As far as neutral goes is beyond me. I can sit there with the clutch in while running (F/R switch engaged) just fine. If the bike is off and F/R switch engaged either direction, I can not start it without it trying to pull forward (or reverse), nor can I just pull in the clutch and push it while off. Both starting and pushing the thing requires the F/R to be in the middle. I have found neutral (using the shifter) a few times but they were all accidental and random (maybe 5 times total). The quad never came with the Neutral/reverse light bezel. I did however purchase one and installed it with no luck. The lights worked when putting external voltage to them, but when installed and hooked up to the correct wires, they never worked. Took my trusty DMM to the leads as well and seen no voltage. I took the bezel off. Seems like unless it is running, the clutch has issues.
 
#26 ·
the clutch is dragging. first try to tighten the cable, my bet is its adjusted to the max and you will need a new clutch but that is easy and cheap. if adjusting it does not work you can tip the machine up on its left wheels and let it set for a second or 2 and they you can pull the clutch cover for inspection without draining the oil.

as to the neutral light is the baby blue wire hooked up to the brass plug switch by the shifter? if not hook it up. if it is test the switch, they commonly go out. the power should come from the cdi through the light bulb and then to the switch. the switch should be normally open and go to ground when in neutral. this ground the neutral/start relay and allows power to the start solenoid.

pull the cam cover off and see if the chain is loose. i am pretty sure those have an automatic timing chain tensioner. pull it out and make sure the spring is good and it is good and clean. if that does not stop you noise it is probably the bottom end and you will either need to tear it down and inspect it or ride with a buddy and a tow strap
 
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