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-   -   Diffucult lenghty start (https://www.bluetraxx.com/forums/yamaha-yfm350-raptor-warrior-87-present/94270-diffucult-lenghty-start.html)

michael0105 07-11-2019 10:14 AM

Diffucult lenghty start
 
So first up date to my post from from yesterday about the starter and solenoid. Everything tested out good. I hooked the new starter up externally and it was spinning just fine. I disconnected the main battery terminals on the solenoid and tested the relay with an ohm meter. Infinite ohms at off and when start button pressed, it would short (as expected), then back to off when I release the button. After I got everything hooked back up, the issue stated again where it would remain shorted and keep trying to crank the starter....I put the old one back in and it workes just fine....Now the pressing problem I started with in the first place.....

I will hold down the start and it takes up to a good 5 minutes to finally start the engine. The starter turns but nothing happens to actually start the warrior. After the first minute or two is when you start hearing the pressure "poofing" out of the exhaust. This continues until it finally starts after so long. Once it remains running for a few minutes, it will fire right back up no issues and runs just fine until it sits again for a few hours. This has been the issue since I got the quad. I have had a new battery installed and it also does this if I try to jump it (which I think eliminates the stator being the issue? Could still be bad but if I am seeing the issue jumping it then I would assume it is something else). Spark plug is newish along with the ignition coil. This has been an issue both before AND after they were replaced. I just want some reliability in this thing before I trust it to take me deep into some trails, does anyone got any pointers on where to start looking now?

michael0105 07-11-2019 10:25 AM

Just a background on the quad. I got it for free a year ago trading someone my totaled SUV that still ran and I got all the money back from, so basically a free quad. I havent had much ride time other than a few hours here and there around my wife's rental property when it was vacant to get a feel for the quad and see what issues came up. The main problem I have had is the starting. Here is a list of items I have replaced in which the starting issue has been there before AND after.
Battery, spark plug, ignition coil, carb rebuild and then just full replacement, starter motor, oil change, new air filter

cory52000 07-11-2019 10:54 AM

jumping it does not eliminate the stator, the stator and pick up coils create the spark no matter what. the crank and spark circuits have nothing to do with one and other. test all of the electronics to rule them out. first guess is low compression. adjust the valves and see if it helps. if not do a compression test, it may need a top end. did you put a cheap Chinese knock off carb like a zoom zoom? if so it could be a bad carb. did you jet and tune the carb for your elevation, yoiu cant just slap a new carb on without tuning it. was the old coil bad? how do you know? is the new coil a cheap knock off?

michael0105 07-11-2019 11:18 AM

ok so you are stating that the spark comes directly from the stator and not the battery? Might need to do some further tests on that one or just replace.
The quad came with a zoom zoom already on it. I forget what brand the one I put on is but I seen recommendations for it a while back. I tuned it to the best of my abilities using youtube (not a mechanic but very versatile in learning new things, may or may not have done it correctly but changed nothing in terms of THIS problem but runs so much better than the zoom zoom). The old coil may or may not have been bad. I just replaced it anyways with what they sold me at the used ORV dealer that used to be in town.
This problem has been an issue both before and after each of these parts have been replaced.

I have seen posts about valve adjustment and looks like I need to take the entire motor out for that? Compression tests can come directly from the spark plug hole correct?

michael0105 07-11-2019 11:41 AM

For someone who is good with tools and can precisely follow directions well. What do you think the estimated time to do valve adjustments would be? What about the top end?

cory52000 07-11-2019 06:35 PM

10 minutes to adjust the valves. a weekend to do a top end if you do it correctly. you will have ore time in cleaning and prepping the machine to open the motor than you will in swapping the jug and piston. do your self a favor and spend the money on a clymer paper manual it will make you life easier and give you step by step instructions for everything. it will pay for itself the first time you use it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CLYMER-Repa...EAAOSwX21c12ht

cory52000 07-11-2019 06:42 PM

the spark has nothing to do with the battery you could take it clear out. it only runs the starter. it is very unlikely that this is electrical but if you order the manual it will walk you through step by step to test all of the electrical parts so you dont wast money. a proper stator is 150 bucks or so. i would not replace it in case. you dont need to pull the motor to adjust the valves. just pull the valve caps, it might be easier if you pull the tank for access. you dont even pull the motor to replace the top end. yes you test the compression in the spark plug hole.

michael0105 07-11-2019 08:27 PM

Just got home and went to testing. Might try the valves tonight if I have time. So does the spark come directly from the stator? I pulled the plug and it was sparking just fine. Seemed a little loose when I started to take out though. Wonder if that has anything to do with it? But yet again it was like that with the old plug as well. Maybe tomorrow I can pick up a compression tester and give it a shot.

cory52000 07-11-2019 08:37 PM

the electricity is generated in the stator, the pickup/trigger send pulse to the cdi/primary coil and then to the plug. again i dont think you have an electrical problem. as long as the plug sets against the seal ring its fine.

michael0105 07-11-2019 08:58 PM

Well after I put the plug back in, it started up rather quickly today after sitting for 24 hours (maybe like 5 cranks). Gets very rough idle at first then dies out. If I even put the slightest bit of pressure on the throddle it stays running.Actual battery is dead so I jumped it. Maybe wife will be nice and give me time to adjust the valves tonight 😂😂. Glad you don't think it's an electrical problem. I am an electronics tech and I think way to deep into troubleshooting. It's always much more simple than I make it out to be.

michael0105 07-12-2019 09:22 AM

So far I got the intake adjusted to spec. It was very tight. My feeler gauge goes down to .04 mm and I couldn't even fit that in there. I got it somewhere in between .06 and .07. That's all the time my wife allowed for me last night, possibly able to get the exhaust side torn off today. Also wanted to note that yes I did my research and have the T facing through the little hole, lol. Would a very tight intake gap cause this issue I am having? I am curious to see what the exhaust is at right now.

cory52000 07-12-2019 03:06 PM

yes it would

michael0105 08-14-2019 10:03 AM

It has been quite some time after I adjusted the valves (due to bad battery) that I have been able to test how it is with after the valve adjustment. Finally threw in a new battery (had other projects come up. It was turning right over and I was hearing the pressure coming out of the exhaust right away (before it would crank and crank before I would actually hear a poof out the exhaust). Fired up rather quickly and took it for a few laps around the block and seems to be running great.....except for.... there is this loud clicking sound I am hearing now. Never heard it before and my wife even heard it inside the house. It goes with the speed of the engine. Any idea of what this could be?
I am trying to take my son out trail riding this weekend (he got a PW80) and would like to either solve this issue or know that its nothing that I need to worry about.

cory52000 08-14-2019 10:47 AM

double check the valves

michael0105 08-14-2019 11:16 AM

Maybe I will get a shot to try that tonight. When aligning for TDC, there are 2 different strokes when the "T" is lined up. What is the best way to tell that I am on the correct stroke. I suppose one there is no gap and the correct one has a gap?

cory52000 08-14-2019 02:43 PM

both rocker arms should be loose when you are on the compression when you are on the exhaust stroke the exhaust rocker will not rattle

michael0105 08-14-2019 03:45 PM

and the adjustments should both be done on the compression when both are loose?

cory52000 08-14-2019 05:11 PM

correct

michael0105 08-14-2019 05:18 PM

Thanks a bunch Cory. Hopefully that settles the rattle.

michael0105 08-16-2019 05:01 PM

So I took everything apart again last night and the valve adjustments were still in spec. The rattle is still there, sounds like the front of the engine, possibly the lower half.


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