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Howcome the YFZ450 is much faster than the 400ex?

This is a discussion on Howcome the YFZ450 is much faster than the 400ex? within the Yamaha YFZ450/450R (2004-Present) forums, part of the Performance /Technical category; I was thinking why the 450 is much faster than the honda 400 ex. It`s just a few cc`s more and a litlle bit lighter....


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Old 12-24-2004, 05:08 PM   #1
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Default Howcome the YFZ450 is much faster than the 400ex?

I was thinking why the 450 is much faster than the honda 400 ex.
It`s just a few cc`s more and a litlle bit lighter.
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Old 12-24-2004, 06:08 PM   #2
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Lets see here: Why is the YFZ is faster than the 400ex?
1. The 400ex was designed how long ago?
2. YFZ has DOHC, EX has SOHC
3. The YFZ has extra 39cc
4. If I remember correctly the YFZ has a thinner piston skirt and a lighter piston all together.
5. Fourstroke technology has really increased in the time since the 400ex was released.
6. It's a Yamaha. Just Kidding

Over the past few years with the motorcycle and ATV industry steering away from two-strokes more R&D has been put into four-strokes allowing for larger numbers out of similar displacement engines. My uninformed $0.02 worth.


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Old 12-24-2004, 06:31 PM   #3
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Quote: Originally Posted by The J
Lets see here: Why is the YFZ is faster than the 400ex?
1. The 400ex was designed how long ago?
2. YFZ has DOHC, EX has SOHC
3. The YFZ has extra 39cc
4. If I remember correctly the YFZ has a thinner piston skirt and a lighter piston all together.
5. Fourstroke technology has really increased in the time since the 400ex was released.
6. It's a Yamaha. Just Kidding

Over the past few years with the motorcycle and ATV industry steering away from two-strokes more R&D has been put into four-strokes allowing for larger numbers out of similar displacement engines. My uninformed $0.02 worth.


J
Pretty much sums it up right there.
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Old 12-24-2004, 06:35 PM   #4
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you prety much summed it up!


....allso the YFZ motor revs higher, fasterer and harder because of the reasons above....makin' it move past the HAHAhonda JKJK....honda makes a great bike....
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Old 12-24-2004, 06:58 PM   #5
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Isnt the 400 still just air/oil cooled?
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Old 12-24-2004, 07:03 PM   #6
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the fact that one is a sohc sesign, and the other is a dohc has nothing to do with being faster.


if anything, the dohc design has more of a paracitic loss because of the extra friction of the added camshaft .
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Old 12-24-2004, 07:33 PM   #7
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Quote: Originally Posted by NitrousGuy
the fact that one is a sohc sesign, and the other is a dohc has nothing to do with being faster.


if anything, the dohc design has more of a paracitic loss because of the extra friction of the added camshaft .
I dont know about that, isnt the 450r also sohc and I do believe its slower j/p
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Old 12-24-2004, 10:25 PM   #8
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yea the sohc dohc thing doesn't matter much. But the overall state of tune on the 400ex motor, which was taken from the xr400, which was taken from the xr350, is old. The xr350 came out in like 83 or something. The 400ex is a trail machine and the yfz is a race machine. the air vs water cooling thing is a factor although not a big one. A air cooled machine might be as fast as i liquid machine. The liquid keeps it at a consistent temp so the power is consistent.
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Old 12-24-2004, 11:29 PM   #9
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Yamaha > honda
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Old 12-24-2004, 11:39 PM   #10
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Quote: Originally Posted by NitrousGuy
the fact that one is a sohc sesign, and the other is a dohc has nothing to do with being faster.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. Older versus newer is a VERY lame explanation.
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Old 12-25-2004, 03:59 AM   #11
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Quote: Originally Posted by The J
Lets see here: Why is the YFZ is faster than the 400ex?
1. The 400ex was designed how long ago?
2. YFZ has DOHC, EX has SOHC
3. The YFZ has extra 39cc
4. If I remember correctly the YFZ has a thinner piston skirt and a lighter piston all together.
5. Fourstroke technology has really increased in the time since the 400ex was released.
6. It's a Yamaha. Just Kidding

Over the past few years with the motorcycle and ATV industry steering away from two-strokes more R&D has been put into four-strokes allowing for larger numbers out of similar displacement engines. My uninformed $0.02 worth.


J
Prolly get flamed but what is DOHC and SOHC?
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Old 12-25-2004, 07:05 AM   #12
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Single Overhead Cam (SOHC)---Dual Overhead Cam(DOHC)
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Old 12-25-2004, 08:43 AM   #13
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I think alot of the 4 stroke technology is trickled down from high performance street bikes also. The big four have some insane 4 stroke motors in their sportbikes.

Its the state of tune that the 400 and 450 are designed for.
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Old 12-25-2004, 09:11 AM   #14
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i know nothing really, but i thought water cooled motors could be run far more efficiently (leaner) than same sized air-cooled motors...a more efficient, complete burn = more hp, yes??

also, separating the exhaust timing from the intake with the DOHC design allows for far mre flexibility, yes??...imagine doing the "cam mod" on a SOHC motor...rotating the cam once to the left/right would change the timing ov every valve, not just the intake or exhaust side....

Finally, materials strength and parts reliability has increased so much...imagine running a stock ex400 up to 11,000 rpm..and that's just the limiter...

my two cents....and it may be all it's worth
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Old 12-25-2004, 12:59 PM   #15
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Quote: Originally Posted by RPyfz450
Quote: Originally Posted by NitrousGuy
the fact that one is a sohc sesign, and the other is a dohc has nothing to do with being faster.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. Older versus newer is a VERY lame explanation.
Older VS. Newer is a lame explanation?
I think it is a very reasonable explanation for more power being produced by the YFZ over the EX. The R&D put into small 4-stroke engines has acomplished a lot. The Yamaha engineers have engineered an engine that can withstand high RPM, severe abuse and be somewhat durable.
If you think about it the yz450f is better than the yz426f and so on. So with time things get better thats whats been happening all along. The 400ex was out and Yamaha one upped them with a faster lighter quad.
I don't quite understand you're argument of older vs. newer not being a valid explanation.

Merry Christmas


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Old 12-25-2004, 01:05 PM   #16
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ccs dont mean sh1t, a piped yfz (450cc) will beat a piped DS (650cc), good ride on YFZ.
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Old 12-25-2004, 02:35 PM   #17
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also, the power to weight ratio is unbeliveable, the yfz doesnt evin wya more then 370 lbs.. the banshee wich is a 2 stroke and 2 strokes weigh less are 280 lbs.. dont get me wrong the honda is a great machine, tis reliable i ahd one but i also had about a grand or 2 into it.. pipes,416 kit etc.. the yfz is made spicificley for the trrack and is race ready out of the box it just needs nerfs and a teather kills switch, i prefer yamaha for obvious reaosns tho.. IMO the only good thing about honda is reliablity, but a piped 400 ex is a lot faster and snappyer then a stock one
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Old 12-25-2004, 04:43 PM   #18
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DOHC- Duel over head cam, SOHC - Single overhead cam..

The YFZ has 5 valves, and 400ex 4 maybe?..
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Old 12-25-2004, 05:35 PM   #19
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yea the older vs newer pharse is true. I bet even if they tried back in the eighties when the ex's motor was designed, they couldn't have got near the power out of a 450cc fourstroke that the yfz is making now.
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Old 12-26-2004, 02:07 AM   #20
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Quote: Originally Posted by The J
Older VS. Newer is a lame explanation?
I think it is a very reasonable explanation
I don't want to dwell too long on what's lame and what's not. I thought it was the most non descript explanation of the semi obvious.
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