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Jets Large Alky Methanol Ethanol Drill Bits bigger jets

This is a discussion on Jets Large Alky Methanol Ethanol Drill Bits bigger jets within the Yamaha YFZ450/450R (2004-Present) forums, part of the Performance /Technical category; Do not drill your jets unless 1. You cannot find the size you need. 2. They are out of them at your local shop. Drilling ...


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Old 01-14-2004, 09:47 AM   #1
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Default Jets Large Alky Methanol Ethanol Drill Bits bigger jets

Do not drill your jets unless
1. You cannot find the size you need.
2. They are out of them at your local shop.

Drilling the jets is not recommended by everyone, but it can be done, and it won't hurt anything as long as you aren't running lean.
(If your drilling jets you PROBABLY won't be lean!) Right?


This is for those who run alky and ethanol methanol etc

Ok here is the place to get great drill bits all the same diameter.

www.biscofl.com/metric_drill_bits.htm



if you want a 180 jet, buy a 80 cent 1.80 mm drill bit
if you want a 160 jet, buy a 80 cent 1.60 mm drill bit
if you want a 190 jet, buy a 80 cent 1.90 mm drill bit

if you want a 80 pilot jet, buy a 1.20 cent 0.80 mm drill bit
if you want a 60 pilot jet, buy a 1.20 cent 0.60 mm drill bit

we bought all the ranges in duplicate from .70 to 4.5 as seen on the web site.

reason, the pilot has to be in the 70 to 120 range and you can't buy them this high.
the main jet has to be from 250 to 450 and you cant buy them this high.

So why are we posting this advice on BLUETRAXX?
Why aren't we quiet so no one else can "get in trouble?" drilling jets?

Because I wish someone else would have spent all that money and time for the last two weeks figuring this all out and posted it here on Bluetraxx, but they DIDN'T!

so come on guys, post what you know here and we can share.. This sight will become a great site!

anyway we will return the bad drills, the short drills and the extra jets now that we know what to do.

and you guys can just look here, order what you need and be happy, all in ten minutes.

Oh buy the way, the phone number for cisco drill bits in florida is

1-866-247-2635

(I have nothing to do with them, but I WISHT I did cause they are a great company)

Screamin I know no commercial advertising, but this is necessary cause it is about the only place you can get super rare drill bits in millimeters and the knowledge factor is a necessity here... I think you should leave it on here.

anyway, hope going alky has been made a lot easier with these DOG RACING TIPS.

There is so much to tell, what I learned this thread would be 6 feet long, so I will post it all on my web site when I am done.

the average joe will be able to go, read and do with no sweat if you ever want to get 15 % more power...

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Old 01-14-2004, 12:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jets Large Alky Methanol Ethanol Drill Bits bigger jets

Quote: Originally Posted by daddogrider
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yeah I like that one
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Old 01-14-2004, 01:17 PM   #3
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Daddog,

Good info. I finally finished drilling all the jets I think I'll need. here are some of the things I found when drilling jets for methanol:

Drill bit City has good bit as well, and the ones for the main will work, but the ones for the pilot have flutes which are too short.

They say to use a pen vise and drill the jets by hand. This will work for the pilots, but will not work for the mains - you will be removing too much brass for that. For the mains you will need a drill press, period.

When drilling the mains, what I found worked really well to ensure you drill straight and down the center of the jet, is the following:

a. put the jet into a fixture (vise) which can lock in the jet, but slide around on the drill plate.

b. fixture the jet threads up, screw slat facing down.

c. ensure the the jet is level by using a level.

d. Drop the tip of the drill bit into the jet hole (make sure it's eyeball close), and let the bit find the natural center of the hole, essentially moving the vise base into position under the bit. manually hold in place - this is possible because the is not much force applied to the jet from the bit. Brass is soft.

e. DONE!!


Now that I've invested $$$ in bits, jets, drill press, etc. If anyone needs jets drilled, please feel free to email me at: steelontarget@adelphia.net

Good Luck!!
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Old 01-14-2004, 11:02 PM   #4
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Or... or... if you don't want to dick w/ any of that you can purchase professionally drilled/purpose-built/custom jets from any number of carb shops. Spend $7-$8k on building a toy then worry about $10 jets?
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:09 AM   #5
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Erik - remember, the joy is sometimes in the journey. I hear you, but this is something I wanted to do so I wouldn't have to go to a shop every time I need jets, and cause its a hobby.

Did you get my last PM?

Nils
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Old 01-15-2004, 01:50 AM   #6
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good ole selector, "let buy someit" from somewhere clear across town, that someone else drilled out and pay $$$ dollars for it............ or like a real tuner lets get out the numbered jet drills and get it fine tuned just right !

geez man..............
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:23 PM   #7
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Oh my god, now hes got people drilling out their jets because its cheaper. A f*cking Mojave is cheaper than a YFZ, why dont you get one of those to drill jets out of. Honest to god, you only drill jets in an extreme pinch. This is one of the top bullshit threads on BT
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:41 PM   #8
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simmer mikey...hes just giving tips on how to do it if you NEED to...as said in the first line..dont do it unless you honestly cant find the right size
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:51 PM   #9
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I just think these things need to be kept to himself. To drill jets right you need a percision drill press along with the exact bits. It needs to be perfectly straight, and smooth. I think its funny how he is doing this to get "between" the jets, when drilling jets is so unpercise. Theres a reason you cant get past a 210 main, because the FCR39MM WILL NOT FLOW past a 210. Just like a raptor carb wont flow over a 180 with out modification. He just needs to get his facts straight before posting sometimes.
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Old 01-20-2004, 03:31 PM   #10
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mikeyg - no one has anyone drilling jets, I'm drilling mine because I wanted to: wanted to learn how to do it, save a couple of bucks, but most importantly - have the jets that I need on hand and in a timely manner as I try to dial in the carb on methanol.

If you think this is a BS thread, then don't read it.

Judging from your last post, I will assume you've never tried to drill your own jets. You say I need to "get my facts straight", but really you post shows your ignorance in these matters - which make sense because you've never done this before.

To drill jets, you do not need a precision drill press. FYI - The pilot jets are drilled by hand, which is the recommended way to drill them. I used a simple craftsman drill press ($89) to drill the mains, which I held in a pair of pliers by hand. The jets work perfectly.

I have no clue what you mean about drilling "between" the jets.

If you had bothered to read previous posts of mine, you'd know I'm using a Mikuni TM42, not the stock Keihin 39mm. That aside, both of these carbs are more that capable of flowing more than the stock numbers. You simply need to, as you say in your post, "modify" these carbs - well, what the hell do you think we're talking about in this thread?!?! We're talking about changing out accelerator pumps, floats, grinding needles, drilling out needle jets, and custom drilling jets to handle the increased flow of methanol.

"FCR39MM WILL NOT FLOW past a 210" - that statement is just moronic.

Bottom line is that the TM42 carb does have the jetting sizes I need, but I didn't know that before I started testing all of them. I've had good days and bad days working on this, but it's been fun overall working though this. You are obviously someone who would rather just pay someone to do the work for you, which is fine, but you can keep your negative flaming to yourself just because I chose to try and do this myself, and share what I've learned in the process. Again, move on to the next thread.

The people who tell others to "get their facts straight", are usually the ones with their heads up their a*s. Case in point.
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Old 01-20-2004, 04:37 PM   #11
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****************
mikeyg - no one has anyone drilling jets, I'm drilling mine because I wanted to: wanted to learn how to do it, save a couple of bucks, but most importantly - have the jets that I need on hand and in a timely manner as I try to dial in the carb on methanol.

Wasnt reffering to you, if you wanna mess with it fine, but I was reffering to daddog making it out to be "cheap jets" If you think a jet drilled crooked will flow like a normal one you dont have much experience with motors.

**************
Judging from your last post, I will assume you've never tried to drill your own jets. You say I need to "get my facts straight", but really you post shows your ignorance in these matters - which make sense because you've never done this before.

Wrong, I have. It worked like absolute shit. I used the same drill bits and used a press, and also used a lever to make sure the jet was parallell with the bit, and a digital caliper to measure the jet.

***********
To drill jets, you do not need a precision drill press. FYI - The pilot jets are drilled by hand, which is the recommended way to drill them. I used a simple craftsman drill press ($89) to drill the mains, which I held in a pair of pliers by hand. The jets work perfectly.

If you say so
**********
I have no clue what you mean about drilling "between" the jets.

Daddog said something about "fine" tuning by drilling jets larger to get between say a 165 and a 170.

**********
If you had bothered to read previous posts of mine, you'd know I'm using a Mikuni TM42, not the stock Keihin 39mm. That aside, both of these carbs are more that capable of flowing more than the stock numbers. You simply need to, as you say in your post, "modify" these carbs - well, what the hell do you think we're talking about in this thread?!?! We're talking about changing out accelerator pumps, floats, grinding needles, drilling out needle jets, and custom drilling jets to handle the increased flow of methanol.

Like I said before I was not flaming you, but if you going through all these carb mods, why dont you just use the right damn jet.
*********************

"FCR39MM WILL NOT FLOW past a 210" - that statement is just moronic.

Bottom line is that the TM42 carb does have the jetting sizes I need, but I didn't know that before I started testing all of them. I've had good days and bad days working on this, but it's been fun overall working though this. You are obviously someone who would rather just pay someone to do the work for you, which is fine, but you can keep your negative flaming to yourself just because I chose to try and do this myself, and share what I've learned in the process. Again, move on to the next thread.

Then why arent jets above 210 made for the FCR 39MX? There sure as hell are machines that could use bigger jets. Why if it could flow the bigger jets are you using a far inferior TM42 carb? I assure you the FCR is a much better suited carb for that motor.

And about having someone else do work for me, you pegged me wayyy off. Never had a dealer or shop do work for me. I could split the cases on a motor when I was 14. Ive completely rebuilt an LT500, Raptor, and a 300EX, and my KX125 twice now. Ive got a decent idea of how an engine works. But thats what happens when your 14, your XR80 that you just worked 3 years for blows up and your piss broke
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Old 01-20-2004, 04:59 PM   #12
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Mikey,

you my friend are WRONG, I have drilled many jets for my bike now and they all work great. I have also drilled out jets for Holley carbs on dirt track cars that run on methanol.

And you are way wrong saying that the FCR39 will not flow enough for bigger than a 210 main.

I happen to be getting great results out of my carb running methanol with a 318 main, needle jet drilled out to a 357, a 70 pilot and a NCVN needle.

The reason the stock carb will not flow past a 210 main is because that is the size of the needle jet in stock form, but I have since modified that.

I really think that you made that first post about Daddog to try and get a few folks to agree with you and you could feel like a "Big Man" by raising a stink.
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:28 PM   #13
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You say the FCR will flow over 210, then you say it wont unless you modify the needle jet, which is correct, but it hasnt been mentioned before. How do the other people who take this guys posts like bible writing know that? What if they think they are getting a 310 jet flow, but are only getting 210 because the needle jet is stock, boom, no more motor, and some kid is out $1500 if he cant rebulid that expensive 4 stroke himself. That head alone runs $750. These arent experimental guienea pigs, they are high compression race motors, and need fine tuning. Im just trying to save a few bucks here, DONT MESS WITH THESE MOTORS IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING. If you need to come on BT for jetting tips you shouldnt be drilling jets and running meth.
Since I seem to be the only one here against drilling jets, I will concede to you guys on that one. Just a personal bad experience I guess.

Im really not as big of an asshole as I seem to be, and im not trying to start a stink. When I was younger I had some trouble with a guy over on another forum who posted total BS about something and I ignorantly did it (ran a BR6 plug in my 125 :rolleyes: ) and blew my motor. I had no money and didnt ride for a while.

If I ever meet you and daddog I promise you guys a round a beer and we can talk motors.
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:43 PM   #14
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Well first I will say the correct answer about the carb is that it will flow over a 210 with some mods.

Just like your YFZ will make over 40HP with some mods.

There is nothing wrong with drilling these jets but you should only do so if you have a reason, and unless you are running ethanol???, or methanol there will not be a need to go over a 210 main ever.

You are right that these engines are high comp expensive motors, but there is no real "mystery" to them.

They are single cylinder DOHC cam motors, and are actually alot easier to work on than most think.

And as far as your plug problem I will say sorry, but you can't take just one persons word on something and that is kinda your fault.

But agreeed, arguing on the intenet is like running in the special olympics, no matter who wins you are both still retarted!
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:46 PM   #15
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About the plug, yes that was definetly my fault. I was just relating to what can happen with false info on the boards. And yes, these motors are VERY easy to work on, just expensive when they break. A rod letting go can get REAL expensive.
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:47 PM   #16
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mikeyg - If I assumed incorretly that some of your comments were aimed at me and were not, then I apologize.

I know a crooked jet will not perform up to par, please don't waste our time with revelations like that. My point was that if you had tried to do it on your own before, you'd know that the amount of brass you are removing from ex. a pilot going from 60 to 70, is so small, and the bits used to do this fragile enough that to do it with a press would probably break them. These bits are put into a pen vise and simply twisted between your fingers. The point of this story is that with so little brass being removed, and the drill bit following the existing pre-machines hole, it's very hard to drill the hole crooked.

You say that you tried making your own jets once and it didn't work, I'm sorry to hear that. This was my first attemp at doing it, and it's worked out great. I haven't had any problems drilling good jets.

I'm with you on the "fine tuning". I think .005mm increments is close enough, but if someone wants to go more, god bless em'!

"Like I said before I was not flaming you, but if you going through all these carb mods, why dont you just use the right damn jet." I'm not really sure I get this comment, as I'm sure you understand that jetting size is just one variable in a equation with many variables - it's simply not as easy as "just use the right damn jets" - which ones are they? Do you know? The rules for jetting are completely different for methanol. It's a combination of the right pilot jet, with the right main, and drilling the right needle jet size because none fo the stock sizes work, hand ground needles, different clips on the needle, etc. for a fuel that not many people use, on a bike that's new enough that even the racing shops can't provide any insight into what the correct specs should be because they don't have any time on it yet. All these variables need to be tested to see which gives the best set up. I wish it was as simple as "just use the right jets."

I don't claim to be a carb expert, or know for a fact why, but my guess as to why the 210 is the biggest jet made for the 39FCR (which I agree is superior to my TM42) is partly because in stock form it won't flow any more than that - but remember this entire thread has be about how to modify a carb for methanol, we're not talking stock gas carbs here. Second reason and more probable is that beyond 210 gets into specialty jets, and financially it's not worth it for the mfg to make those jets. If someone is doing something so out of the ordinary which require special jetting of that size, then they will pay the $$ to have them made, or in my case make it themsleves. If I was running methanol this on my stock carb, I would still have to drill some things out (like the needle jet) in order to make it work.

If you're telling me that your YFZ could use a bigger main that a 210, I would probably say BS, and ask you the stats on what you're running, or to explain why you need it. My guess is that you probably haven't seen one which needs jetting that big (on gas anyways), and if you have, I'd like to know what was done to it for it to require jets that big. The other question is if you need these jets, why haven't you made or bought them yet?

The reason I'm using another carb is because I wanted to be able to switch from alky to gas any time I wanted to, without having to rip apart the carb and re-jet. Now I simply slap on my stock carb and I'm running gas again in about 10 min. I went with the TM42 because I'm working with Ron over at Ron Wood Racing on the fuel change over, and that's the carb he suggested. From what I've seen so far, once I get it dialed in, it will suit my needs just fine.

No one is arguing the superiority of the FCR carb, to be honest it's totally beside the point.

If I took the tone of your post wrong, then again I apologize. If you do your own work, again...cool. If this info is a waste to you, then skip it, but to others they are curious as to what it takes to make this conversion work. I've put a lot of work into this, and have appreciated all the info and help I've got off this site and from some fo the members. If I can pass on some of what I'm finding on this to others, then great. It does irritate me when people flame others for trying to show what they've learned. If you didn't mean to do that, I'm telling you you did.
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:51 PM   #17
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Good post Nils.
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:54 PM   #18
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I don't want to start a pissing contest either, but....

"If you need to come on BT for jetting tips you shouldnt be drilling jets and running meth."

I'll say this and let it go, but this really is one of the more stupid comment I've read on BT. Are we only allowed to come on BT if we just want to find out what's the best exhaust to run? At what point does the information in question become too indepth that it shouldn't be disscussed on BT? Never is my answer. If you need to know something about your bike, this is a great source to use. How will anyone learn anything and become more experienced if you can't discuss it on a forum like this???

I've said my piece, and mikeyg - beers are on me next time!
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:57 PM   #19
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I apologize, I really didnt come off nicely. I agree with what you are saying, and I wasnt directing my comments at you. Like I said lets just grab a beer, ride, and shoot the shit
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:16 PM   #20
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Right now I am running a 230 main, 58 pilot and NCVP needle on clip #3. (Running strait gas)

That is with my port job, Jardine pipe, cam mod and K&N with no airbox.

http://www.eskimo.com/~daddog/pics/a...terbracket.jpg

I just tested it today and it runs real good.
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