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pop,pop,pop, and more popping

This is a discussion on pop,pop,pop, and more popping within the Yamaha YFZ450/450R (2004-Present) forums, part of the Performance /Technical category; heres my setup gyt-r full pipe, cam mod, k&n w/ pro design adapter and no lid 172 main 45 pilot 2.5 turns out on the ...


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Old 11-05-2003, 09:39 PM   #1
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heres my setup

gyt-r full pipe, cam mod, k&n w/ pro design adapter and no lid

172 main 45 pilot 2.5 turns out on the screw gyt-r needle 5th clip

the problem i have is that im experiecing a lot of "popping" and small rapid backfires on decceleration. the only thing i can think of is to increase the pilot to a 48. i know the popping is a lean condition but i had a 180 in it and it runs a lot better w/ the 172.

im at sea level and running straight 100 octane. any ideas?
thanks
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:02 PM   #2
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adjust your air fuel mixture i have the same problem but it RARELY does it like only it does it 4-6 times in a 4 hour ride
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:15 PM   #3
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Quote: Originally Posted by Newjacksm
adjust your air fuel mixture i have the same problem but it RARELY does it like only it does it 4-6 times in a 4 hour ride
mine does it everytime i left off the gas...ill have to play around with it
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:21 PM   #4
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move up to a 48 pilot and, 175 main, and go 1.5 turns out on the screw
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:21 PM   #5
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you might also want to move the clip back to the 4th spot not the 5th
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:36 AM   #6
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DOGTRICK:

popping, we have discovered can also occur when air leaks into the pipe, the gytr pipes have a loose attachment between the muffler and the head pipe, andit sucks in fresh air which is ignited by hot (red hot) pipe thus cause popping.
we ordered a new seal, they seem to fry up pretty fast and turn to dust.
the 450 is one abusive quad on pipes it really puts out the power!


TOO MUCH FUEL in the low range will pop also, the rich air will get ignited by the tail pipe!

so popping can mean one of two things

1. You are too lean!
2. You are too rich!

Now, wasn't THAT helpful?


I your case I would agree with the last two posts and move the clip down one and see if it goes away.

NOTE: When you go down one clip and then up on pilot a little and up on the main a tad, you are FLATTENING the curve a bit in the middle.
but that shouldn't be done if you are already at 48!

So that is a clue .

I would just try JUST moving the clip one notch down , it just seems the right direction in your case. Try it and see if the popping improves or gets worse..




DOGRTRICK:
does it get worse or better with choke 1 notch out?

if it runs worse or pops more then you were rich


Does it get better or worse with airbox lid on?
If it gets WORSE with airbox lid on then you were too rich.


ok here is a testing way:
run it for a day.

NOW IT SOUNDS like you should be doing the plug check thing, put in a new plug and run it at aeactly mid throttle for 5 minutes (track oval or something, dont heit peak RPM , then kill it suddenly and check the plug.

if it is all black and carbony on the electrodes, then you WERE TOO RICH

if it is WHITE you were lean.

if it is brown you could be either and just try one up and one down.

hope that helps

and once you get perfectly jetted let us know your altitude, temp country location and your mods, I am making a chart so that soon anyone will just be able to look on the chart and know real close where you are at and what you should put the jets at.

Thanks

you are not too far off probably within one notch or 1 jet of perfection.

then get yourself one of them ZIPTYE airscrews I mentioned on my web site on the first jetting page they are awesome.

goto

www.eskimo.com/~daddog/jetting/index.htm

on this page, read through it, there is info on the zipty airscrew, that REALLY HELPS, the boys are able to fine tune within an hour instead of several days now. (using the airscrew)
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:57 AM   #7
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speaking of poor seal between header and pipe on the GYT-R kit. I have the Carbon GYT-R slip o and have an air leak bwteen the header and muffler. it puffs out a small but of exhaust. dont really wnt to crank to hard on the collar bolt. im a miffed about that.
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:11 PM   #8
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i think the guys are right about the needle...go to 4
id also back out the screw at least a 1/4 of a turn...
check for air leaks also...
have you pulled your plug and looked at it?
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:18 PM   #9
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Quote: Originally Posted by seatec
speaking of poor seal between header and pipe on the GYT-R kit. I have the Carbon GYT-R slip o and have an air leak bwteen the header and muffler. it puffs out a small but of exhaust. dont really wnt to crank to hard on the collar bolt. im a miffed about that.
We have a replacement on order, they are not reusable.
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:10 PM   #10
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daddog ,what do you have done to your yfz?my 2 friends bought yfz's and i have a banshee.1 yfz had lid off,unplugged stock pipe and when i would run him on my banshee i could beat him by 4-5 quad lengths.im 250lbs he is 170lbs.the other yfz had lid off and sparks exhaust and sparks jet kit.when we would race it would be pretty even.again im 250lbs he was 170lbs.im just curious cause you guys seem to be moppin up all kinds of quads.the only yfz that was beatin everyone was 1 with sparks full system ,filter kit,cam mod(supposedly had dirtbike cam in it).this 1 beat me by like 8 quads.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:28 PM   #11
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Lean your needle out, your to rich for the setup you have. Popping can be caused from being to rich as well as to lean. Go to the 4th or 3rd clip and try it.
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Old 11-07-2003, 12:10 AM   #12
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Mine pops when i let off on the gas, but im still tuning my air screw.
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Old 11-07-2003, 03:35 AM   #13
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Quote: Originally Posted by 97redbanshee
daddog ,what do you have done to your yfz?my 2 friends bought yfz's and i have a banshee.1 yfz had lid off,unplugged stock pipe and when i would run him on my banshee i could beat him by 4-5 quad lengths.im 250lbs he is 170lbs.the other yfz had lid off and sparks exhaust and sparks jet kit.when we would race it would be pretty even.again im 250lbs he was 170lbs.im just curious cause you guys seem to be moppin up all kinds of quads.the only yfz that was beatin everyone was 1 with sparks full system ,filter kit,cam mod(supposedly had dirtbike cam in it).this 1 beat me by like 8 quads.
THREE KEYS:

FIRST ->WEIGHT. take off what you can, and stop eating fast food.

SECOND ->TRACTION: geckos, sandsharks, knobbies will always loose to extreme haulers - we have TESTED and SEEN differences of up to 40 feet on a 300 foot drag, now that is a lot.

Also we use a controversial trick - Titanium chain with no O-rings. We think they help, but never tested. If the boys say its better, I just believe them nowadays.

Also use a 15 tooth sprocket on the front, this improves the times. You take off in gear 1.5 instead of gear 1. The 450 does not do well in gear 2 takeoffs.

THIRDLY ->POWER. Jetting is key for the 450.

and

MORE AIR THEN JET! (exhaust restriction removal like baffle out or PIPES)
MORE AIR THEN JET! (Intake air addition K&N rules!)
MORE AIR THEN JET! (make the air mix perfect, and keep your fuel source the SAME, seasonla gas mix changes change your jetting, alcohol gas requires higher jetting GOOD PREMIUM GAS requires less jetting)

FOURTH-> practice your takeoffs.


the dogriders are near perfect drag machines, because they are kids. Their reflexes are great, they don't weigh much and they love to go very fast. Cause they are kids.

all of Bluedogs runs were within 1/10 of a second at the Sand assoc drag meet at Florence, Oregon (winchester bay to be exact) in 2003 Jly 28-aug1 and it was almost down to bluedog and whitedog but whitedog jumped a light by a split second cause he could not figure out why his light always came on way later than the other light, so he took off on the other guys light once!

first time racing and they took home the trophy.

OOO, did you see whitedogs picture? it is in ATVRIDER magazine December issue in the Oregon dune fest article, right page very top with all the quads in line ready to race, he is #2 in line! Bluedog's winning run was on the atv program on TV winning it, (I missed it ) but some nice bluetraxx member told me about it. oops sorry about that, back to topic.

anyway practice practice practice.

as for the JETTING! this is the one thing you CAN CHANGE IMEMEDIATELY, so why not talk about that most?

The jettng for the 450 is very poor stock, and the airflow is very plugged. If you beat a stock jetted 450 then you can say, "I beat a nice quad."
Might as well say I beat a honda 400 or something.

But you can't say "I beat a rippin quad!"
If you don't have a 450 and you beat a fully modified 450, then your wallet is very thin.

Bluetraxx friends , please excuse this old video again)
here is a bone stock 450 against the 450 setup like we raced at the sand fest, cause we went to sand fest the next week.
www.eskimo.com/~daddog/videos/modunmo.wmv
I took that video and we went out to shoot this video (I HAD TO TELL BLUEDOG NO!) he wanted to do HIS cam mod before the video!
immediately (like 5 seconds) after the video he was in the garage doing his cam mod! I hadn't even posted the video on bluetraxx yet! He didn't want to drive the rest of the day, wo whitedog and I had to go home instead with him. The cam mod is real, this is not a fake video, the jetting was pretty good, but could have been better..

.
When the baffle was out and the airlid off and the cam exhaust rotated 1 tooth clockwise our jetting as pilot 42 ?? i think, airscrew 1.5 needle #6 stock and mainjet 165. That is how whitedog was setup on that video.

there was no banshee that could beat either of our 450's at sea level unless it had engine work like porting and exotic fuel or whatever.

the jetting is pretty key.

basically the ratio between the needle and pilot and main is very important.

here are basics. just pick one of these and you will go fast.

Pilot45 airscrew 2 needle #4 clip and mainjet 165 - for baffle out and airlid off
pilot 48 airscrew 1.5 needle clip #5 and mainjet 175 - if you modify cam and get a pipe also
pilot 48 airscrew 2 GYTR #NCVQ (stock Yz-450 needle) race needle #4 and mainjet 180 if you add a K&N
pilot 50 airscrew unknown yet #NCVN race needle (1 above the YZ-450 stock needle) #2 mainjet 220 if you port on top of that.

those are the four main settings.

try eadh one and the one you run BEST on, then start from there..

ok you found the best for YOUR altitude and weather, so then increas the airscrew from 1.5 to 3 by 1/4 turns till you run very good with minimal popping.

also increase a mainjet every time you ride by one till you loose power, then back dwon one jet at a time till you go your FASTEST.

you should be at the best possible jetting you can accomplish THAT WEEK at THAT ALTITUDE for YOUR QUAD.

now adjust the airscrew by 1/8 turns until you are PERFECT

(we are still on this stage since we ported it.

Now after that is perfected try this one last maneuver!

DROP THE NEEDLE JET CLIP by ONE and see if you gain a little bit.
if not, put it back.

this system gets you to your optimal jetting the fastest.

Why is this SEEM so complex? (it isnt really, Every move on needle main or pilot affects everything else, so you should make one step at a time, or you will get quickly mixed up.

On the 450 jetting is very important to be optimal. It is a race quad motor and touchy.
Once you are ported, you should SEE how finicky and difficult it is to jet. THE PLUG SEEMS ALWAYS GREY no matter what you do! we basically had to try every combo and it took us two weeks.but we got it, I listed it above at the beginning of the post.

but you won't fail if you go consistently, write things down and keep trying.


we thought we had it untill we made one needle clip change and gained an instant 15 feet on the drag tests.

so you never know till you try all the options.

you can go by charts and graphs and theory and experts, and then I can take it and with slow plodding small changes make it better.

until you are the best you can be.

every mod or add on makes you go throw the steps again, so might as well put everything on at once and get it over with, then jet it right.


our next one is going to get ported immediately and al the mods put on before we break it in.
save us lots of jetting time. Besides, I don't like driving a 450 slow for ten hours, that is about as much fun as listening to bah-brah strisand records (sorry babs )
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Old 11-07-2003, 03:44 PM   #14
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another 1 of my friends just got a yfz and rode it 2 times and now it is apart getting cams ,high comp piston,and port work.it should haul ass.he is tryin to get it together for glamis on thanks giving.i would get a yfz but i am a fatass and im just not comfortable on 1.my banshee is just more comfortable for a fat guy.i am thinkin that im gonna have to go atleast 400+ cc and get a set of cpi's to stay ahead of him in the sand.
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Old 11-08-2003, 06:27 AM   #15
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Daddog,
mate that has to win the longest post prize
I admire how much time you put in helping others.

Geoff.
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Old 11-08-2003, 12:53 PM   #16
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Quote: Originally Posted by iluv2fly
Lean your needle out, your to rich for the setup you have. Popping can be caused from being to rich as well as to lean. Go to the 4th or 3rd clip and try it.

thanks for all the great tips guys!!!! seems like the general thought is that im running rich. i still will try the 48 pilot and put the needle on the 4th clip and turn the screw 1.5 turns out instead of 2.5. ill let ya all know :cool:
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