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Craycraft motors

This is a discussion on Craycraft motors within the Yamaha YFM660R Raptor (2001-2005) forums, part of the Performance /Technical category; I was on 14mins.com today looking at the 686 package and I didn't see anything about them useing an aftermarket rod like a Corillo. If ...


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Old 01-02-2004, 04:09 PM   #1
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I was on 14mins.com today looking at the 686 package and I didn't see anything about them useing an aftermarket rod like a Corillo. If they don't put a beefier rod in there 1650.00 seems quite expensive for what they list as the 686 kit. I wonder how long one of those engines would hold up at 65 horses on the stock rod?
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Old 01-02-2004, 05:41 PM   #2
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As long as you don't run it too lean, there are zero horror stories with 686 high compression pistons and stock rods. I only know of one stock rod problem with a high compression 686 and the guy was running so lean, his jetting wasn't much over stock.

Lots of rod problems with stock bore piston swaps that weren't properly bored and a few with 11:1 (12:1 static) JE pistons that didn't run high enough octane. I've got 40 gallons of VP C12 through mine and it's sound. Don't let rumors interfere with fact.
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Old 01-02-2004, 05:53 PM   #3
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65 hp doesnt sound right to me for a basic 686 still using the stock rod, but from what ive heard their motors are very fast and bob is a good person to work with, but those numbers dont sound right
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Old 01-02-2004, 06:17 PM   #4
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Go price a trinity 686 with all the stuff that is included in the Craycraft kit and see what it adds up to. I bet it's a lot more and you are not getting near as good of work and the customer service doesn't even come close to Craycraft's. You won't find a 686 kit that includes the carillo rod and it's installation in the package because it will jack the price up. Mine has been going for well over a year now on the stock rod with zero problems.
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Old 01-02-2004, 06:53 PM   #5
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Quote: Originally Posted by sparksraptor101
65 hp doesnt sound right to me for a basic 686 still using the stock rod, but from what ive heard their motors are very fast and bob is a good person to work with, but those numbers dont sound right

65 is definately high. A basic 686 with stock carbs is probably more in the area of 52-54 RWHP on a single roller Dynojet dyno.
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Old 01-02-2004, 07:22 PM   #6
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14mins quad dyno'd 67 hp at FSW II with the Craycraft Signature engine and MBRP drag pipe. I saw a dyno of another 12:1 Hotcams Stage 2 686 that was 58 HP without any head porting running a full exhaust. If the Craycraft Signature engine isn't at least 60 HP at the rear wheels, I'd be VERY surprised.
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Old 01-02-2004, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Don't let rumors interfere with fact.
I won't. It's a FACT that the guy I ride with blew his stock rod to pieces running a 12:1 piston on it. He always ran 110 race gas. I can't vouce for the engine work because I don't know who did it. I didn't go high compression when I ported the head specifically because of his experience. I didn't want to go big bore/high compression until the motor needs rebuilding, then I will do it right, not half-ass it at 2 grand and then have to spend another 2500 to do it like I should have in the first place. All the shops I called about going big bore/high compression while I had the engine apart said it was 50/50 as to whether your stock rod would last. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, it just makes sense to me that if you're gonna spend that much money why not make it bulletproof?
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Old 01-02-2004, 08:51 PM   #8
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Quote: Originally Posted by UBETRUN
14mins quad dyno'd 67 hp at FSW II with the Craycraft Signature engine and MBRP drag pipe. I saw a dyno of another 12:1 Hotcams Stage 2 686 that was 58 HP without any head porting running a full exhaust. If the Craycraft Signature engine isn't at least 60 HP at the rear wheels, I'd be VERY surprised.

The dyno a FSWII was Ohton's, which is known for being VERY high. For instance I've seen a Trinity 727 dyno at 66 on Ohton's, and then only dyno 55 on a real-world single roller Dynojet. Getting 65 RWHP on a Dynojet(which is the industry standard), is not easy. Most alcohol FCR'ed 727's barely make that.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:02 PM   #9
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That's exactly why dyno numbers are useless for proving anything. A dyno is a tuning tool and that's it
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:11 PM   #10
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sto'stimemachine - If your buddy's engine was properly bored and he was not running lean (stock carbs? modified? if not, he was lean), it's the first time I've heard of one failing. I don't know why you chose to pick on Craycraft but you're not going to make any friends here if you keep it up. Bob is an awesome guy and has many happy customers. If you think you can find a better builder, good luck.

I am in Stafford VA, about 125 miles from you. Let me know when you get your Raptor built "properly" and I'll haul mine down to race you. If you want to put a little money on it, I'm up for that too.

RaptorAZ - Notice I said 60, not 65:-)
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:22 PM   #11
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Quote: Originally Posted by sto'stimemachine
Quote:
Don't let rumors interfere with fact.
I won't. It's a FACT that the guy I ride with blew his stock rod to pieces running a 12:1 piston on it. He always ran 110 race gas. I can't vouce for the engine work because I don't know who did it. I didn't go high compression when I ported the head specifically because of his experience. I didn't want to go big bore/high compression until the motor needs rebuilding, then I will do it right, not half-ass it at 2 grand and then have to spend another 2500 to do it like I should have in the first place. All the shops I called about going big bore/high compression while I had the engine apart said it was 50/50 as to whether your stock rod would last. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, it just makes sense to me that if you're gonna spend that much money why not make it bulletproof?
It's your choice to put the rod in, the rod is around 200 bucks then you are looking at a few hundred more for having the rod put on the crank and having it balanced. If you are paying someone else to do the disassembly/reassembly of the engine it jacks the price up even more because the cases have to be split. Just because it's not included in the kit, that doesn't mean he doesn't offer it. Give Craycraft a call and he will go over every option possible with you. I know him personally and spend a lot of time at his place so I might sound biased, but ask anyone who has called him before and you will not here even one bad story.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:25 PM   #12
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Quote: Originally Posted by RaptorRiderTX
That's exactly why dyno numbers are useless for proving anything. A dyno is a tuning tool and that's it
For the most part, you are correct. The only time a dyno is usefull for comparing different machines and motors is when they are all tested the same day, under the same conditions, and on the same dyno.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:42 PM   #13
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Quote: Originally Posted by UBETRUN
RaptorAZ - Notice I said 60, not 65:-)

Here's some conversation I had with 14Mins a while back. These are his words and numbers.

"It is hard to build more than 55hp on a Dynojet dyno."

"What we usually see on a Dynojet dyno:"

1. stock Raptor = 35-37
2. well tuned Raptor with exhaust/air/carb mods = 42-43
3. #2 plus cam = 45
4. #2,#3 plus 11:1 piston = 46

"I have never seen one push over 48 that was just piston/cam/bored."

"A Trinity 686 is 44."

So even if Craycrafts porting is MUCH better than Trinity's, I doubt it would be more than 5 RWHP at most.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:58 PM   #14
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First let me say I'm not trying to "pick" on anyone. I know Craycraft has an excellent reputation. I called them about a month ago while I had my engine torn down for the headwork and asked his opinion about what I should do. Based on our conversation about what I wanted, what kind of shape my current engine was in etc... I stayed like I was. When I do go 727 I'll probably have him do it. He was very helpfull and patient with me and talked at lenght with me, he was more concerned about what I wanted than selling me something. I appreciate that very much. What I can't figure out is if the strength of the stock rod doesn't concern you why not go 727 instead of 686? You're talking about a very small amount of money. The pistons cost exactly the same amount of money. I'm just trying to find out how the stock rods are holding up in the long run, that is all.

UBETRUN-
How does a race have anything to do with my post?
Load it up and bring it down, we'll put 100 bucks on it.
BTW, it's a thousand mile race, let's see how that stock rod holds up in the long haul.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:03 PM   #15
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Even though the piston price is similar between a 686 and 727, it costs substancially more to do a 727 because the 727 requires a new sleeve. And that sleeve requires that the engine cases be split and bored to accommidate the larger sleeve. So most people opt to do a rod change as well, when doing a 727.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:09 PM   #16
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Now I understand why people go 686 instead of 727.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:27 PM   #17
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RaptorAZ - I'm still looking for the 58 HP dyno chart but this should hold the line for now. It's a Craycraft 11:1, Hotcams Stage 1 686 with stock carbs.

sto'stimemachine - I don't have enough fuel for a 1000 mile race, let's just make it a mile or less for $100:-) Seriously, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post, I thought you were bashing Craycraft unnecessarily. If you have to split the case, might as well replace the stock rod. If you don't have to split the case, it's better to leave things the way they were assembled from the factory. If your buddy was running stock carbs without modifying them for more flow, he blew his rod because it was lean on the top end. Stock carbs won't flow more than 180 mains and a high compression 686 needs at least 190 or so. You can put whatever jets you want in the stock carbs but if you don't modify them for more flow, you won't get more than fuel than the internal carb limitations.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:37 PM   #18
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Here's the 58 HP graph, I don't know what kind of dyno LRD uses. This is a high-compression 686, Hotcams Stage 2, 35mm FCRs, Sparks X6, and no head porting. I think the Craycraft porting is worth at least 2 HP so I'll stick by my previous statement of 60 HP or better out of the Signature engine.

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Old 01-02-2004, 10:52 PM   #19
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UBETRUN- no problem man. I didn't know that about the stock carbs. I did read some posts about guys machining down the last .3 inches of their needles so the stock carbs would flow more.

I think I'll pass on that 1 mile run for 100 bucks, but if you want to come down ridding with us and kick my butt for free that's cool. Have you been up to South Peddlar Trail ridding yet? If not, I highly recommend it. Very cool place. It is close to Lynchburg in the George Washington National Forest.
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Old 01-02-2004, 11:37 PM   #20
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what carb mods do u do that u guys are talkin about, im in the process of building a 10.75-1, stage 1 hotcams, 686, with maybe some mild porting, no craycraft or other company porting tho, just mild, would i need the carb mods? can i do the mods myself?
thanks
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