I'm new to this forum, and am a novice fixing ATV's, so any assistance is greatly needed and appreciated.
My 1987 has no spark. Originally, it was running for 3yrs and all I had changed in that time was the stator. Then recently, it started to backfire and when you throttled it... it felt like it was hesitating to get moving.
So I have done the following on this bike recently, but still can not fix the no spark issue. I am getting charge readings from the ignition coil wire but it seems it's not enough to fire the spark plug, but the bike does turn over great.
I have 3 square relays, 2 are white and 1 is blue on this bike. I don't know what they do but I did cycle the white ones out with a known good one but not the blue one and I don't know how to test them.
VERIFIED USED
Cdi box
VERIFIED USED
My original battery which will charge to 12.99dc
BRAND NEW
Rectifer - Good
/Starter Selenoid - Good
Starter - Good
Stator - Caltric - cannot test
Carburator - Zoom aftermarket - Good
Ignition Coil - Good
Spark Plug - Good
Tusk Clutch Kit & Cable - Good
Neutral & Reverse Switch - Good
Ignition Key Switch - it's aftermarket and don't know if it could be causing an issue.
I hope this is enough detailed information for someone out there to point me in the right direction. Thank you again!
UPDATE1: 4/13/17
Battery fully charged is 12.99 - but goes down to 12.56 when turning the bike over 3 times. Goes down to 11.34 volts when turning bike over.
Read other threads and double checked harness for any issues. Found none.
Put old ignition coil back on... nothing. Put new one back on.
was the backfiring before the no spark. check the intake boot for the backfiring. as far as the no spark some of the Chinese electronics have the red and white wire swapped on the pickup coil (i know caltrec sounds like it is should be good parts but they just rename the same Chinese knock off stuff everyone else sells) look closely at your old one or look for a picture of a factory one. check your key switch with a meter, compare it to your reining diagram if you dont have one down load it from the sticky. make sure you have power to and through it. the relays are the safety stuff if it cranks they are good. you should be able to do an ohm test on the caltrec stator, yoiu wont know the exact numbers but you will be able to tell if it is shorted.
Thank you Cory for your help! I think I have checked the stator correctly.. but double check if you would please. I have the meter set at 2000 ohms.
The white wires (3) test at 001 in any config I do... I don't think that's good? I tested by putting the red to one prong and the black to another... and kept switching them around in the plug.
Both Pick ups are at 380.
The blue single wire from stator test 1 or n/a
The brown single wire from stator test 309 ohms.
I would upload pics I took but it's not letting me. Thanks again for your help.
i would say that stator is junk. i have had good luck with the ricky stator replacements. if i understand your numbers it sound like it is shorted out.
Ok... thank you again Cory! I will get a Rick Stator cause it seems they are better even tho they are still aftermarket but most people trust them.
UPDATE:
Just for EVERYONE that see's this post.... Caltric told me through email that they DO NOT TEST THERE STATORS and they will just offer a replacement first without needing to send the broken one back. Guess it's the luck of the draw!
Yes, that's what is good about Caltric....tell them it's a defective part, take pics and show them what's wrong, and they will send you another one quick. Other company's out there are selling aftermarket Stators for much more. The last one I bought lasted 3 years on this bike from Caltric. I have access to a shop about 35 minutes away from my house that repairs atv's and they use Caltric Stators. I personally believe that any aftermarket Stator is not an OEM so you will expect lower performance and shorter longevity from any aftermarket part. The only difference is Caltric sells tons of there Stators at only 35.oo.
I'm not investing in OEM on this 1987 Warrior because I might sell it and use the money for a down payment on a 2014-15 used raptor. If I knew I was keeping it, then for sure I would be buying OEM even tho the cost maybe triple.
in most cases i would agree that oem is best but on the warrior the oem stators suck. the wiring yamaha used does not hold up to the heat that a warrior makes and the winding's break down prematurely, that is why you will almost never find a warrior with the original stator in it. the ricky stator replacements are hand built using a higher temp wire and are definitely worth the money. its cool caltrec will send you a new one but they wont push your bike back to the truck when you cook a stator on the trail.
in most cases i would agree that oem is best but on the warrior the oem stators suck. the wiring yamaha used does not hold up to the heat that a warrior makes and the winding's break down prematurely, that is why you will almost never find a warrior with the original stator in it. the ricky stator replacements are hand built using a higher temp wire and are definitely worth the money. its cool caltrec will send you a new one but they wont push your bike back to the truck when you cook a stator on the trail.[/QUOTE
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I have heard that before that a OEM stator isn't great for a Warrior but thought the source of info was full of crap.... so thanks for the update. If I do keep this bike then the next stator i'll probably switch to the Rick Stator seeing it does get a lot of good reviews. The good thing about where I ride is it's 10 minutes away and in a National Forest OHV trail about 24 miles worth. If you break down, they will tow your ATV to your trailer. You just need to flag a cycle or atv down as they pass and they will alert the officers.
OK.... the new Stator from Caltric came in and the source ohm's where at (001). The spec calls for (0-10). Both pickups are now reading 380 so I am assuming!!! that this stator is good, but still won't fire.
Sooooo.....i'm still at a no win situation. Going to try and and test/used old rectifier, cdi box and ignition coil again one by one till I find the culprit.
I did change the clutch plates also when I was adding new electric parts. I'm sure I put it together correctly using the Tusk Kit, new cable and watched a youtube vid of a guy fixing his 1987. Could I have done something wrong so this bike won't start? You never know so thought I would bring that up.
Cool on the clutch. I bought 2 new spark plugs when I bought the rest of these parts. I have tested both of them by arcing to engine block......and nothing. I even bypassed plug and arced with a screwdriver. The key switch wires have continuity in all wires and that part is new.
The one thing that I can tell you is both of my cdi boxes do show a pulsing current coming from the orange wire when you turn it over. I don't think you can test a cdi box that way. But because of those readings.. I tested if there was a reading coming from the spark plug wire and there is a reading of .22 average at 20v DC multimeter setting.
It just seems to me that there is juice going through everything but not enough to kick the spark plug.
I just sold a Honda trx250 after rebuilding it and never had this kind of a "ghost" issue. But I just got to get this beast going.. got to much into it.
well if you have a pulse on the orange wire unless you have a short in it or it is broken i would highly suspect you primary coil or a bad ground on the ignition coil. have you checked and cleaned all of your grounds
I have checked the ground wires and all seems good. With both new and old ignition coils i'm getting the same result.... a spike to .22 and then down to a steady .14 on the multimeter set at 20v dc. I'm testing that red to spark plug wire and black to engine frame.
I'm afraid that without knowing what and how to test the current from the ignition coil... I may never figure this out. Advanced Auto and I double checked to make sure the new spark plugs were in fact the right ones for this bike. But maybe it's possible I bought to bad ones... I just can't believe it.
i have never seen a spec on the pulse voltage so who know if that is correct. are you getting a full 12 plus volts to the cdi? i dont think you got 2 bad plugs. it is starting to look like the cdi might be the issue and that is a bummer on an 87 they dont make new ones for it and the used ones are super spendy.
The CDI Box on the bike now I just bought from a bike shop who is telling me that it was in working condition. My old box is giving me the same readings when I turn it over and there saying this is an under volt issue.
So I will try and figure out how to test the current from the stator up to the plugs at the CDI and see what I get as you are suggesting Cory.
I have done as much as I can do to this bike. I seem to be lacking in the "electrical testing" ability needed to figure out where the issue is. It seems that the volts and ohms for any part I put on this bike end up being the same whether I use my old parts or not.
The one thing I have figured out is that initially I was getting weak or broken spark when the issue started to happen and the bike would fire up but not stay running and turned over slower like it didn't have a lot of battery power. Now, no spark but the bike turns over like a new bike.
So, I still would greatly appreciate any feedback you guys might have before I take this to the local shop and eat the labor charges. lol
i read back through the thread and i cant see anything electrical we missed. in the manual there is a step by step trouble shooting guide for the electrical system. i think you have done it all but try walking through that one more time. so if it is not electrical components you have to rule out the mechanical components. first check the timing make sure they line up correctly. if they dont then you will need to figure out if it has jumped time, if the timing chain is worn and stretched or if you have partially or completely sheared the flywheel key. i honestly doubt it is mechanical because with timing issues normal you have spark it is just at the wrong time. did you ever compare your caltrec to the original stator to ensure the red and white wires on the pickup are oriented correctly. the only other thing i can think of is those plugs can be problematic. the pins are very tiny and can easily bend, i have had the pins bend far enough that they did not go into the female side of the plug. everything looked good but there was no continuity through the plug. if you do end up taking it to the shop be very careful. it has been my experience that most mechanics today have little experience in this area and this machine was probably built before they were born. they depend on being able to plug their lap top into a machine and it tells them what part to replace. that is not an option here so they just start replacing parts. i just searched e bay and found a complete electrical system for a 97-01 for 99 bucksit had everything except the flywheel and i found that for 59 bucks it is used of course so no guarantee but for under 200 bucks you can have a 3 generation warrior. that gets you more power and significantly cheaper parts. if you have 2 working 87 cdi you could ebay them and come out 200 bucks ahead. my point is you can quickly find yourself 500 bucks deep in a 1000 dollar bike and it may or may not run in the end they charge you for diagnostics even if they cant figure it out and like said in most cases any more they just start throwing parts until something works and it is not the cheap ebay stuff because they cant take the rick of cheap parts. if you do take it in have a conversation with the tech, not the guy behind the counter and tell him the things you have done and checked and how you did it and you should be able to tell if he or she knows more or less than you.
When I got this new stator, I didn't change the wires in the pickup coil square plug.
I have seen that many bikes have a pattern that when you test for ohm's... you need to test the Right Top Prong TO Left Bottom Prong and you will get your ohm's reading.
With this stator... you test Right Top Prong TO Right Bottom Prong and you get 380 ohm's. So could it be that the 87 is suppose to be this way or is this Caltric stator wired wrong like you have been saying? And if it is... do you know which wires I should switch... the two top or two bottom?
I just want to make sure cause I don't blow up anything. lol
Thanks again Cory for responding and for your advise.
I've checked everything again including timing. The original stator and this new stator both give me the same readings and have the same pickup coil plug configuration. So I don't think this is a stator issue anymore.
From what a local shop and the shop I purchase the new (used) cdi box from, they both say it's not cdi.
So my local shop was nice enough to tell me that this issue is most likely the ignition coil or bad ground on coil which is probably a wiring issue. Again, I checked but never changed the ground wire on the ignition coil that goes back through the harness. It is a new ignition coil but they say it could have been a bad one sent to me and my old one is also bad so no spark either way.
The shop also didn't think the battery was working correct considering that when starting this bike, the volts went down to 11.34 and that may not be enough volts to kick the coil over. Any thoughts?
Now I'm trying to figure out how to test a ignition coil correctly. Like I said before, I am getting .22 at 20vlt DC setting that drops to .14vlt and stays when starting this bike.
I apologize if i'm going over things we have already looked into. I'll be playing with the bike today and your right, it's not worth taking to a shop. I either fix it or sell it for parts. lol
there is not a voltage spec for the ignition coil it is an ohms test, one for the coil and one for the coil and wire. the spec is in the manual. a bad ground or weak coil can definitely cause this. as far as the battery goes either put a jump pack on it for more cranking amps or try pull starting it and see what happens. make sure the area the coil bolts to is clean. did we talk about the green wire on the reverse lever, if we didnt try grounding that wire i had to do that on my 87 to get it to run. this thread is getting long and my feeble mind cant remember all the things we have talked about. if you like warriors and you cant get this ignition to work i would look hard at the 3rd gen ignition swap before you scrap it. that was my plan if i ever had an issue the 87-88 frame in my opinion is better than the rest, it is a little heavy but way stronger and has replaceable ball joints and the pull starter.
Yes, no matter which coil I use.... neither is working... so I have to assume originally the problem was a bad coil that shut this bike down. Then the new coil I have is bad or not the right one. So... with that in mind... i'm going to get a coil NOT from EBAY and hope something sparks!
Happy trails till then.. but open still to any testing instructions on that coil.
I bought a new Ignition Coil from a Motorcycle/ATV shop that verified it's OEM. Still no spark. My local shop suggested that I "do a DC Volt check set at 20vlt and not a OHM Check with the volts coming out of the CDI box's Orange Wire again". Long and behold... it read negative .06 volts with just the key on and not trying to turn it over. So they say "it's apparent that something in the electric system is grounded".
I'm not sure now if it's a part or the harness itself. I have checked the harness but might have missed something.
So thank you again Cory for your help... and i'm still working hard at figuring this mystery out.
Just an update for this issue.... actually found an online service manual and purchased one.
My Brother In Law who works in wiring and circuit boards said that there is no power getting to the CDI BOX or down to the Stator.
There is 12 vlts from Ignition KEY's Brown wire going back to Rectifier. But when he tested the Brown or Red Wire going down to the Stator and every wire in the harness going into the CDI BOX, he didn't find any volts.
He said he needed the actual wiring diagram for the 1987 to fix it. Does anyone have a link or a pic for this bike? I can't seem to find one on the net and it has to be the correct one.
Thanks Cory... yes... found everything and have been doing everything to figure this out. But I may have found an issue that I need verified.
The Brown and Red wire coming up to the Ignition Key Harness has 12.60 volts like the battery.Tested at 20k volts ...
NEG to BROWN and POS to RED 12.60
NEG to RED and POS to BROWN -12.60
With the Run switch to OFF/ON and the key off......
1. When I test the volts in the key harness when it's hooked up... it does show 12.60 volts also.
2. When I turn the key on.... the volts drop to .ooo. Nothing in the manual explains this. It's like something is getting grounded in Ignition Key or CDI. Got and ideas?
3. The STATOR is a concern. Tested Charge wires in Spec, Source in SPEC, Pickup Coils max 209 in manual but getting 380 ohms. Which is what all 3 of my stators that I have are reading installed or not. (360-380)
Plus... I hear some people get a Stator from Caltric or other for the 87' but the wires on the pickup coils plug are wrong position. I can't find anywhere where someone shows how to check or correct that if it does happen to them.
Went back through the manual and tested the CUT OFF Switch as per manual. Not an expert testing OHMS but when I tested OHM x1 using the meter at 200 setting... nothing changed when I changed the switch back and forth. I assume at this point this is cause of all this hassle!!!!!!
BLK/WHITE POS... BLACK NEG.... Meter just said Bat 1 . and didn't change when switching. These two wires do go directly to Ignition Key Harness.
Yep... that switch or the wiring was bad so ordered a new one. Even if you put it to RUN, it will allow the engine to crank w/start button, but may not allow the connection continuity needed for the CDI Box to engage. Did my homework on this Manual and Multimeter usage. Have learned a great deal on 87 warriors. Should have done that first... but thank you all for your advise.
The wiring to the key switch was altered. The old switch, which was open in the back, worked because it too was modified. When I put a new Key switch on... there was no ground to the CDI Box so the bike had no spark. On this bike we just decided to ground the switch by using a bypass. If I had just gotten another harness... all of this would not have happened.
The wiring to the key switch was altered. The old switch, which was open in the back, worked because it too was modified. When I put a new Key switch on... there was no ground to the CDI Box so the bike had no spark. On this bike we just decided to ground the switch by using a bypass. If I had just gotten another harness... all of this would not have happened.
Hey man I'm having the same issue with my 87. How exactly did you ground the switch
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